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 Community Discipleship
 
 10/26/2006 7:02:30 PM
User is offlinekcstrobel
50 posts


Community Discipleship
 (United Kingdom)

I have made a similar post in a different section, but I think there are slight differences. What I am wondering about is what it might look like to do discipleship in a community oriented way. In this sense, what I am wondering is how can we avoid doing discipleship in the classically western way of following around a rhetorician and learning his thoughts, and possibly aim towards a more community oriented discipleship, where the whole community is a part of the discipling process, and not merely one person downloading information to another. So in this sense, what if we took Paul seriously and followed the fact that the whole body has a purpose, and understand that purpose to be a part of the discipling process, and not merely a cog in the great-Sunday-morning-service-machine?
 11/21/2006 1:59:04 PM
User is offlineRobin
20 posts


Re: Community Discipleship
 (N/A) Modified By Robin on 11/21/2006 6:59:26 AM)
Well, kcstrobel, I think it might look like a small group where a handful of men or women show up and tell the truth about what's going on in their life and then pray for each other, perhaps sharing a word of encouragement or a scripture as the Spirit prompted them.

I wonder if I am missing something in your question, and I fear I may be offering a simple (simplistic) solution to a deep theological question, and if so, I mean no disrespect. Coming from a woman's perspective (which is the only perspective I've got! LOL) we do this sort of thing rather instinctively because God made us that way. Not that there aren't possible difficulties or rough spots (that dang sin nature does show up) but by-and-large, when you assemble a group of Christ-follower women (in a sunday school classroom perhaps) then the Holy Spirit tends to prompt them to pay attention to each others hearts, ask her how she's doing and then look her in the eye and let your listening give her a soft place to land. She shares her painful or happy truth (baby sick all night for a week or just got a great review on her job), a bond is formed and a friendship is born. So much of this nurturing and discipling happens outside the 1 hour each week that they are in the same Sunday School room.

On one hand this is huge, epic. On the other hand, it's not rocket science. One only needs to obey when the Holy Spirit says "call Jennifer and find out how her pregnancy is progressing." or "I wonder why the Jennings haven't been to church in a month. I think I'll send her a cute "i miss you" e-card."

When you said "cog in the sunday morning machine" you did remind me of something. So so so much of this nurturing discipling happens outside of the roles-and-goals church structure. I remember being asked to be "in leadership" in my sunday school class one time and the man who asked me was caught a little off-guard when I said I was honored to be asked but that I'd have to pass. When he asked me (somewhat incredulously) "don't you want to serve the Body?" I told him that the Holy Spirit was leading me that the best way I could serve the Body this season was to be deliberately un-busy so I could be available when someone walked in to church looking like they lost their best friend.
growing, learning, enjoying the ride
 11/21/2006 2:19:50 PM
User is offlineRobin
20 posts


Re: Community Discipleship
 (N/A) Modified By Robin on 11/21/2006 7:31:17 AM)
Something else just occurred to me, kcstroebel, and it made me laugh at myself.

A year ago, I worked with a Godloving life coach. He helped me to define my spiritual gifts and clarify the calling God had placed on my life. Emad promised me that when I learned to get comfortable and allow the gifts of the Spirit to operate in my life that what I did wouldn't seem hard or something I had to 'psych myself up' to do. It would seem as natural as breathing. Which is so FUNNY because that explains some of my wondering "what's the big deal? you just come alongside someone and treat their heart with care and respect and allow the Holy Spirit to nurture them through you. It's pretty wonderful, once you get the hang of it." Because that's not just Robin trying to rack up altruism points, that's the gifts of Mercy and Helps in operation. So Emad, you were right!

I'll try to use an analogy for discipleship and allowing the Spirit's gifts to flow. Let's say spiritual food and physical food. So someone might raise the question, "how do we get food inside the digestive tract of these hungry babies?" and much analysis could be done over how much food the babies need and what is the cost per capita or return on investment to get the food inside the baby. Real scientific stuff.

Then a mother joins the discussion and she squints, asks them to repeat the question and says, "well, the best results seem to be obtained by noticing when the baby is hungry by listening to their cry, holding the baby in your arms offering soothing loving words, and then offering food to the baby by offering a full breast or a full bottle, allowing the baby to take hold of the food that is offered, and then holding the baby through the process."

Amy Grant said it best, "sometimes we make it harder than it is."

So to go back to your original question, kcstroebel, which was "what if we took Paul seriously and followed the fact that the whole body has a purpose, and understand that purpose to be a part of the discipling process, and not merely a cog in the great-Sunday-morning-service-machine?"  I'd say teaching and coaching on discovering and exercising spiritual gifts is critical. But I'll use myself as a guinea pig and point out that I had sat through 2 years of an annual sunday school lesson on spiritual gifts and gained only some cool bar charts in my notebook. for two years. Then a living person coached me through the discovery process of spiritual gifts, and taking a look at my heart and what God has built there. For about a month, we traded long emails and phone calls and at the end of the process, I didn't just know what bar chart I was, I knew for sure and certain what things God had built into my heart and what my passion was toward his people. Add a year of learning and trial and error, and now it seems like the most natural thing in the world. It took time and someone discipling me to make me an effective disciple. None of this took place in the Sunday School classroom. It was just two Christ followers walking with God and encouraging and mentoring with brotherly love. Cool, huh?  :)
growing, learning, enjoying the ride
 11/23/2006 3:46:02 PM
User is offlineaphekah
16 posts


Re: Community Discipleship
 (United Kingdom)

I was wondering if I could jump into this conversation. I wonder if there is just a deeper more pragmatic issue at hand. I think you are right Robin, in that when the Spirit tends to move through people's lives, it seems that it is just natural. I'm not sure if I would put a gender tag on it though, because I've seen plenty of women's groups that just spin their wheels and maintain a relatively shallow and somewhat meaningless environment. I guess the question should be, what makes a group of Christians sitting around and talking different than a group of unbelievers? We can't just say the Spirit and move on, because nonbelievers do the same - they open up and share gifts with one another, bless one another with calls and emails, and help each other through the day to day of life. When are we just calling something spiritual, just because it seems to be going well? I think these are the kinds of questions kcstrobel was asking.

In my experience in the church, these questions are a lot harder to answer. How do we help people grow in small groups, and not just leave them to interact. I have seen people be in groups for years, even decades, without much real growth going on. Sure, deep relationships developed, and I certainly don't want to water-down how important that is. But shouldn't there be a natural developmental growth from infancy in the faith to maturity? I guess, by and large, I just don't see that happening in the church. Any thoughts?
 11/24/2006 5:33:03 PM
User is offlineRobin
20 posts


Re: Community Discipleship
 (N/A) Modified By Robin on 11/24/2006 10:38:13 AM)
I'm so glad you did jump in, aphekah. I am not surprised that there might be a deeper more pragmatic issue at hand. I looked at the opening post, and saw a solution that seemed as plain as day to me, so I was left with the dilemma on whether to offer the thoughts of my heart or to withhold them for fear they might seem simplistic. I decided to go ahead and offer what I had. I'm glad you raised the questions that you did and I'll offer what I can.

As I read the opening post, I pictured my faith community and literally visualized my husband and I walking into our Sunday School classroom or homegroup meeting and the relational dynamics we experience every time we go there. I was trying to capture the ease and grace that characterizes our friendships. We don't have to work to enjoy this community any more than one has to work at enjoying easing down into a tub of hot water. It just feels good for what ails you. So on one hand that is simple.

On the other hand, why doesn't every Sunday School class we've walked into feel as warm and comforting and healing as a jacuzzi? Now THAT'S a million dollar question! It made me remember the cold and vapid sunday school classes my husband and I suffered through before we finally bailed and found this one. The short answer is the hearts of the people in the room.

You're absolutely right, aphekah, that nonbelievers can also open up and share and encourage each other, bless one another with calls and emails, so why is a group of believers any different?

I've thought about this and it seems to me that the main difference between a cold class of believers and a social group of unbelievers and a warm class of believers is this: The absence or presence of a deep love for Christ and a burning desire to love him above all else. It's a paradox. Because loving relationships second instead of first makes them sweeter. There is nothing so comforting or 'at home' about being able to tell in a conversation with a new aquaintance that they love Jesus the way you do. Like St. John said, "our spirits bear witness with each other."  And it's not like someone walks into a room and says "Hi I'm Mary I'm an accountant and I love God with a fierce dedication." <wry grin>  No. You can just tell. You can tell in how they casually talk about a need they experienced that week and how they brought that need to God and how he met them in their place of need. Or maybe they're still at that place of need and they ask you to pray for them.

And again, how is this different from any other secular support group or social group? I have to smile as I remember as I remember when I took my new believer neighbor with me to a ladies prayer and share small group one evening. She was familiar with the "share your heart and offer encouragement" dynamic so she fit right in. But when we moved to prayer time, she was pleasantly overwhelmed. After we had finished praying for her, Karen wiped the tears from her eyes, grinned, and said, "this is like a support group...WITH POWER." We all laughed with knowing smiles. I said, "Yeah, we can talk to each other all day, and feel some sense of comfort and relief, but when we talk to God about it, and he changes our problems and he changes us, now that's power."

You asked another question, "I've seen plenty of women's groups that just spin their wheels and maintain a relatively shallow and somewhat meaningless environment", that I am better equipped to address after a conversation I had over Thanksgiving dinner. My cousin, a young wife and mother, was telling me why she had quit in frustration after a year of serving as women's ministry director at her church. She had started small groups that were poorly attended, put her heart into planning a ladies retreat with a lovely setting and an inspiring guest speaker. 1/4 of the women in the congregation signed up and only 1/5 of those who signed up attended. My cousin stood in her kitchen, exhaled, wiped her forehead and said "they don't want to go deeper, they don't want to follow after Christ, they just want a cliquish social club on Sunday morning and they don't want anything else that might require their time or their hearts."  My mom comforted her niece by quoting Fredrick Buechner "the place where God calls you to is where your deep desire and your world's deep hunger meet.". My cousin began to cry. I told her "Hon, it's obvious you have a deep desire to love and encourage and disciple women, but it seems to me that the problem is the other half of the equation. We need to pray that God will give these women a deep desire for him, because until your world has a deep hunger, anything you offer them will not seem appealing, and you will get worn out from trying."

Natural development from infancy in the faith to maturity happens when a person who is hungry for more of Jesus is nurtured and taught and prayed for by someone who is also hungry for more of Jesus. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled. Sorry if that sounds too 'pie in the sky'. The reality is desire and hunger matters. So no, you couldn't just put 8 new believers in a room by themselves and expect them to grow to maturity. But if you put them in a room with a mature believer who is passionate about loving them and discipling them and pursing their hearts, then something beautiful can happen. I am thinking about all the mature believers who were passionate about pursuing my heart over the years and I am so so grateful.

Another dynamic in growth from infancy to maturity is seeking and finding God where the rubber meets the road, in our places of deep practical need. Our pastor preaches God's word without sugarcoating it and he is big on application of God's word. He told us one time his goal is "not to load you up with theory and make you smarter sinners. I want you to be changed. I want you to want to be changed." When a believer starts to expereince God's word as relevant to their struggles with sex or money or parenting or job then it's very encouraging and makes you want to keep growing.
growing, learning, enjoying the ride
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